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KVT minting offer has ended

We would like to notify you that our final KVT Minting Offer has now ended, with the full allocation of Kinesis Velocity Tokens (KVTs) now claimed by our community.

With the completion of the final KVT Minting Offer, users are now no longer able to earn KVTs through minting.

However, you can still earn gold and silver through the minting process, thanks to our innovative Minter’s Yield. For those unfamiliar with minting, we encourage you to explore this opportunity with our step-by-step video walkthrough, led by none other than Andrew Maguire.

Although the KVT Minting Offer has drawn to a close, this won’t be the last you hear from us. Kinesis is currently working on an exciting new offer sure to captivate the attention of the Kinesis Community and, perhaps, the precious metals industry as a whole. Stay tuned!
 
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This posts on this thread veered away from the thread topic with much of the discussion revolving around the points made in goodgreen's suggestion here:

While that suggestion takes a different point of view to what's was outlined by the team in Vaultside episode 1, the forum provides the facility to make suggestions and for others to vote them up or down.

Summary of the team's approach outlined here:
That thread includes two posts that were moved from here to create a new thread.

I have removed 26 posts above. Let's try and keep any further posts on this thread focused on the end of KVT minting offer.
 
It may well have been mentioned in the thread before pruning but that the KVT offer has ended is a double edge sword.
It is true that the KVT promotion was primarily responsible for the size of the master fee pool. Thus it was primarily responsible to the yields. There are projects coming over the horizon - i am aware of some that are being tested out and some about to be but until they actually appear and start to get traction the yield pool will fall in size. Hopefully this will be a brief affair.
The good side of things is that Minters' yield dilution will significantly slow, if not stop. There has been a steady underlying increase in the number of KAU and KAG in circulation. We can see this in the chart.

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The spikes up were due to the coins market makers held and are no longer holding - the main thing is the number of coins keeps edging up.
New coins come into being through the minting process. However if there are too many coins minted this results in the market makers ending up with more than they want. So they redeem the excess coins.

When a coin is minted it entitles the Minter to a share of the Minters' yield - forever. So even if that minted coin is ultimately redeemed, a yield will continue to go to the Minter. So the number of coins entitled to the Minters' yield keeps going up as minting occurs and up to now that rise in minted coins has been faster than the rise in persistently circulating coins which are out there generating fee income for the KMS. This process results in diminution of the Minters' yield per coin - it results in Minters' yield dilution.

Now the minting offer is over there isn't the same incentive for the ordinary user to mint. The dilution will slow significantly and may well stop. However assuming the demand for coins in circulation continues to climb there will be a shortfall in coins and this is likely to be made up by the market makers who start running short of coins to sell to users. Market makers can mint coins, they do this at more favourable terms BUT they don't get a Minters' yield. So hopefully the Minters' yield dilution will start to reverse. I will be keeping a close eye on how the Minters' yield is developing to see if it has moved into reverse. The Minters' yield is my most valuable yield unless i have done a lot of transactions. For those of us who were active Minters it will become an increasingly valuable asset in their KMS portfolio.
 
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sixgun said:
This process results in diminution of the Minters' yield per coin - it results in Minters' yield dilution.
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Good post, I agree with all being said; the effect of dilution on user behavior is going to be severe. I had a conversation with my AE last week about ideas to promote minting vs exchange buying for businesses. Here is an example of the effect of dilution and underscores the need for market makers to undilute the yield to make it more attractive:

Let's say I have a monthly payroll and mint 100KAU($6500) for the month and contrast that with an exchange trade. (Someone check my math:)

A mint vs exchange trade would result in higher fees at $25(.23% extra in fee) and a loss in spread of 10 cents vs exchange as the ask at the mint per unit is higher by that much...a loss of $10. So overall a higher cost of $35 for this trade; all other actions being equal.

If minted, my Minters yield from this action increases with 100KAU over an estimated 60M of eligible KAU right now. Taking February as an assumption, let's say the month ends today...for MVP, the minters yield is ~470. So my math says my eligible through this action increases: 100/60m*470=0.000783 KAU OR 5 cents in minters yield...to be fair this 5 cents is generous in the short term as the MVP is going to dip after February's whale mint cycling...however, let's just say other parts of the project get us back to this level quickly and keep it simple for this example.

This means I am making a trade comparison of $35 vs 5 cents....700x higher fees plus spread loss. Yes, I know the 5 cents is perpetual, but that does not matter to me at these numbers. Annualized, assuming I repeat this every month and considering the perpetual nature of minters yield the comparison is $420 vs $3.9...the perpetual nature of the minters yield now has me at 107x more in fees if I minted, but in nominal terms my fees for payroll in that year is $416 higher.

I realize the size of MVP really changes the dynamics of this thought experiment; so other examples will show different figures. As a business looking at this TODAY I will go for the most efficient thing and instead just use the exchange to buy KAU to pay my employees.

Curious if anyone comes to a different conclusion?
 
Buying on the Exchange is the most cost effective way of doing things, certainly with the present fee structure. These fees will very likely have factored in the KVT offer and in previous times the triple yields. Whether the minting fees readjust we will have to wait to see.

So from a shorter term basis buying on the Exchange is the most cost effective. Yes if you are skilled, have nerve and have luck with you, you can mint for nothing, you can even make a profit on a trade - this is how i managed to get some KVT's for free. However if i had done the trades at the same time on the Exchange i would have made more profit due to lower costs.

Does the Minters' yield offset the extra costs and so lost profits? I don't think we can exactly answer that b/c it depends on what the Minters' yields are - i have a feeling they could be significant in future times, for me they have been 25- 30% more than my KVT yield.

You can usually make a bit of alpha on the Exchange but gold has to fall over $20 to breakeven on a Mint trade. We can all look at the charts retrospectively and spot hundreds of times we could have done a deal and come out ahead but sadly i haven't mastered seeing into the future quite yet. Using the Mint is a gamble especially without the cushion of the KVT offer. Would and more likely could a company gamble with employee wages to rack up Minters' yields? One day it would pay back but lost revenue to a company can make the different between viable and bankrupt. It is lost capital you might reinvest in your company. Perhaps your company doesn't make it to that 'one day'.

Kinesis had an incentive to promote minting - it created turnover when use cases were not in place. Let's imagine there are a dozen partners jacking up the turnover and market makers can satisfy the expanding circulation. Does Kinesis really need user Minting? Yes it is more turnover and so more fees but we then get more Minters' yields..........forever and ever. It's a balancing act as i see it without the level of advantages to Kinesis there were in the past.
 
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I'm intrigued by the volume on Coingecko, which even after the large minting days has remained in the 100ks, never dropping to under 100k, which used to be typical, especially at weekends.

If something is happening, it's in the right direction.

In terms of minting generally, most people who use Kinesis will never know about the PMO to get KVTs, but will accrue Minter's yield just by using the system, which is great.
 
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AlM said:
In terms of minting generally, most people who use Kinesis will never know about the PMO to get KVTs, but will accrue Minter's yield just by using the system, which is great.
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i don't expect many people will ever mint. The minimum is 200oz of silver. Even at the washed out price of silver today, that's $4700'ish, just to put your toe in the water. Now let's just imagine the metals reset. Unless you already have plenty of metal, the horse has bolted for you.

The vast majority will just use the Exchange through some interface or other. I have burnt through $10's of thousands minting - it is not a cheap business. When we had the $50k KVT + triple yield offer that was fine and i did round after round after round - but today at the current Minters' yield and the costs, it isn't viable unless you are particularly adept at getting in and out at the right prices. Minting is handed over to the market makers and i will be glad to see that happen.
 
I suppose Minting will be incentivised again with new promos.
I did mint KAG during the 1% over spot special..
 
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Lozion said:
I suppose Minting will be incentivised again with new promos.
I did mint KAG during the 1% over spot special..
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But as i pointed out, the mint cycles were there to create volume before partnership schemes, debit cards etc etc kicked in. Once they kick in there isn't the need for any giveaways - volume is there without minting.
 
Understood. Maybe Minter's yield will be reallocated to a different incentive, say Velocity, with historical minting payouts honoured. Not sure if that'd work in terms of balancing the books.
 
Whoa, slow down sailor:) Supply and demand will work this thing out. The purpose of minting is to add currency. We need ways to increased demand for the existing currency so KAU/KAG fall into short supply.

So, all these passive users that are currently on the sidelines need a way to buy and spend. To me that is the next step.
 
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The Kinesis Exchange had a decent volume today. A moment ago $496K for the KAG/USD and $283K for BTC/USD. I couldn’t be bothered adding the others up, but it wouldn’t be far off $1M USD for the last 24 hours.
I think this is noteworthy because it’s all organic volume. None from mint cycling, which has officially ended.
It’s still a long way off the volumes which most of us would like to see. A hundred fold increase is what many of us would like. However, I’m a little pleasantly surprised by today’s volume. Breeze in the doldrums.
There’s quite a few Indonesian rounded number KAU trades for their newest competition, too.
 
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